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The Blue & Gray Press | February 18, 2018

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Greek Life Divides Student Body

Greek Life Divides Student Body

Over 100 submissions on what students think about Greek life have come to the SGA website, according to SGA President Jeremy Thompson.

Last week, SGA released a survey that asked students for their opinions on Greek life. The results from the survey were released on April 25 at the Student Senate meeting. Only 23.9 percent of the student population completed the survery.

“When the senate first said they were going to do this, it was a huge project,” said Thompson.

A motion called to survey students about their feelings towards recognized Greek life last fall. The publicity committee then created the survey, according to Morgan Buckner, SGA publicity chair.

“The purpose of the survey was to make sure student voices were heard. The senate did the best they could to try and look at that,” said Thompson.

According to Thompson, many people were involved in developing the questions for the survey, including the publicity committee and administration.

“It was a combined effort on a lot of people’s part,” said Thompson. “It was vetted several times, and it was a long process.”

The survey questions were given to the administration to look over and review, but not all the recommendations were implemented in the final verison, according to the Vice President of Student Affairs Doug Searcy.

Results were released Wednesday, April 25 at the Student Senate meeting.

According to the survey, 47.11 percent of students said that the absence of a University recognized Greek life system affected their decision to attend UMW, while 30.39 percent say it did not affect their decision.

The survey also reported that 47.01 percent of students believe UMW should not have Greek life, while 32.28 percent believe it should.

“Because this was a Student Government—student initiated survey, students had final oversight regarding what was provided to the University community,” said Searcy.

UMW recognizing greek life would mean sororities and fraternities would not necessarily get money allocated, but just be a part of the university, according to SGA Vice President and Student Senate President Robert Belcourt.

“The questions arent going to give us the answers that we are looking for,” said Belcourt. “I am encouraging a new survery to go out in the fall which will be made in conjuction with faculty with knowledge of research methods.”

There was a Board of Visitors (BOV) meeting his past weekend. According to Belcourt, the board briefly discussed tuition and Greek life.

The SGA President will use this information to speak to the university and the BOV, according to the offical report from SGA.

“They are aware a survey occurred and are expecting results in the fall from the SGA President,” said Belcourt.

A town hall meeting was held on Wednesday, April 25 to discuss the matter and let students voice their opinions.

Each speaker was given three minutes to speak on Greek life, whether they were for or against it.

Sean O’Brian, both a UMW alumni and UMW faculty moderated the two hour event. He was a past SGA President.

“In terms of student government, we just do what the students want. If the majority of students say ‘we want greek life’ then it’s the SGA’s mission that we articulate those needs upward,” said Thompson. “We do articulate both sides of the issue to administration, because even if the majority want something its really unfair just to articulate one view.”

Comments

  1. Joe Smoo

    This is a poorly written article.

  2. Joe Smoo

    Hope no one gets offended here but I feel as though this article leaves the public waiting for more answers instead of summing up the whole issue.I will say that people need to lay off criticizing the student leaders who were in charge of the Greek life Survey. I personally know many of them and they haven’t had a good night sleep in a while.

  3. Awesome work reporting the debate on Twitter. You should reprint that transcript in the paper, it gives an outsider a great overview of the issues at stake and arguments made.

  4. Rob

    Thanks for all of your hard work this year Mariah! I appreciate it!

  5. UMW Parent

    As a parent of a male freshman, who just finished his pledge semester and is now a Brother in Psi Upsilon, We have seen my son mature and thrive with the fraternity experience.
    Our son played football in high school and hasn’t found a sport that he is as passionate about while at UMW. Greek Life has given him a group of guys who share similar goals and ideals and will forever have his back in his life’s journey.
    Greek Life provides young men and women a chance to bond and make life long friends, support during and after college and the opportunity to fulfil philanthropic endeavors associated with the College and the local community.
    Students who are not interested in Greek Life should not have the right to thrust their bias on the university as a whole; there are many clubs and organisations that are not popular with all students and some that may have moral or religious issue for some students… does that mean they shouldn’t exist? of course not! If UMW is to truly become a diverse and equal opportunity university for all students, to deny Greek life,because it is a single sex organization or not something the majority of students at UMW may want, is as narrow minded and racially biased as it would be to deny the LGBT community the right to be recognized and establish their own organization. These organizations help LGBT students connect and foster positive relationships while attending UMW, just as fraternities do.
    A diverse university isn’t about just skin color or ones ethnic background but about students and faculty with different interests, ideals and philosophies, accepting each other and allowing for individual choice, which in my son’s case was to become a brother at Psi Upsilon Fraternity. It’s very unfortunate UMW chooses to preach it’s diversity while discriminating against some of it”s students who wish nothing more than to bond with same sex friends and to participate in their college life and be recognised and supported by the college and student body for all of the good work they do.
    UMW get out from behind your shrouded vail and truly become the diverse university you claim to be…. support Greek Life and embrace all of your students organizations. True diversity is accepting everyone, even students who wish to join organizations that are single sex.

  6. UMW grad

    PLEASE don’t tell me that you’re trying to equate the struggles of the LGBT community with your son wanting recognition for his organization.

    Back to the topic at hand. One of the reasons I chose Mary Wash (back in the day) was because of the lack of greek life. People who do not want fraternities and sororities changing the dynamic of their campus are not “thrust[ing] their bias on the university as a whole.” They are maintaining the status quo that for an organization to exist, they need to be all-inclusive. Greek life is not prohibited solely because it is single-sex, it is also because not everyone who wants to join is able.

  7. UMW Parent

    before UMW went coed… they had Greek life. Don’t use that lame excuse “not everyone is able to join” The two off campus fraternities are very open to new members and if Greek Life was allowed on campus there would be more fraternities and sororities that might be the perfect fit for any student. Not wanting Greek life on campus was your choice… so don’t join! Don’t judge something you have never been a part of… and yes to deny a student the opportunity to allow Greek life on campus is JUST like discrimination against a LGBT organization or any legitimate organization! This is a public university … I can’t believe it can be so narrow minded and uninformed about the positive aspects of Greek Life.
    All I ever hear from the opposition is that they personally don’t want Greek Life on campus… they have some old fashioned misconception that it’s some horrible “Animal House” type snobby club. This couldn’t be farther from the truth…. before you are so quick to judge, why don’t you meet some of the current members of the two off campus UMW fraternities. I think you would be surprised at all of the charity work they do and how it sheds positive light on the school. I know Greek life so far has been a very positive force in my son’s life and in today’s times I’m for any organization that helps my son become a responsible, contributing member of society.

  8. A

    The mention of LGBT is irrelevant, UMW supports non-exclusive clubs only, any organizations that are afiliated w/LGBT are promoting awareness, working for inclusion or a cause, etc. They’re not “for” LGBT community members, they’re for anyone. Clubs are really not equatable with greek life organizations, and its very restrictive what can/can’t become a UMW approved club. If participation is restricted, AND it is not an academic, honor, or elected (like SGA) organization, its really nothing like a club. I don’t think it can be considered “discrimination”, because likewise, UMW recognized clubs/organizations must be fully open to anyone interested. That said, students seek out a University that provides for them what they want in the realms of academics and social life. Many choose UMW for the environment it provides, and everyone is pretty aware of what social life is like at UMW, or at least has been in recent time. If someone wants an environment in which there is Greek life (and I don’t deny that all Greek life isn’t bad and that it has a possibly undeserving reputation), they were/are fully able to choose a school that has it.

  9. E

    Just to leave some more quantitative evidence:

    A 2006 study from the American Journal of Economics and Sociology found members of a Greek organization suffered from 1-10 percent lower GPA than non-Greek members. (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1536-7150.2006.00457.x/full)

    US Dept of Education found that 75% Fraternity members engage in ‘heavy drinking’ vs 49% of non-Greek peers. Also, 70% of Greek-affiliated students missed a class vs 33% of non-Greek students(http://www.higheredcenter.org/services/audiences/students/fraternity-and-sorority)

    On the plus side, increased social skills and self-esteem among other aspects.

    Overall, it seems to be a sacrifice in academic prowess and a gain in sociability and networking opportunities.

  10. UMW Parent

    Greek life is open to any student that is interested… that’s the point! I hope students who are interested will continue to push for recognition from the university as it will benefit many students…and all students by the charity work these fine organizations contribute to the university!

  11. Fraternity Member

    You are completely missing the point of UMW’s ban on exclusive organizations. I know of no non-academic fraternity or sorority which has open membership. The fact that students can WANT to join and yet be DENIED membership is what runs most contrary to UMW’s policies.

    While it is important that students are uncomfortable with the prospect of Greek life on campus, the fact that not every student on campus wants to join a fraternity or sorority is irrelevant.

    You are misunderstanding what opponents mean when they say that they are “uncomfortable.” People who are uncomfortable with Greek life on campus are afraid of the rape culture and the intolerance bred by their presence – phenomena which are well-documented. When they express that they are made “uncomfortable” by the prospect of Greek life on campus, they are saying that they would be made to fear for their own safety.

  12. UMW grad

    When you get to replies to replies to replies, etc, things can start to get confusing. I will break my reply up into paragraphs to make things easier to read.

    – I didn’t know that there used to be greek organizations before the school went co-ed–that’s interesting. I also find it interesting that the school chose to stop supporting greek life. That is something I would like to know more about, so thank you for pointing that out to me.

    – The issue is with the exclusivity. I understand your argument that anyone has the option to try and pledge. The problem is that not everyone has the option to join. Unless these organizations are prepared to take every single person who wants to join, there will be a problem.

    – The analogy to LGBT groups is misplaced. People of all orientations are welcome to join LGBT-rights groups, and I was actually involved as an ally while I was at Mary Wash. Being cis-gendered and in a hetero-normative relationship didn’t cause me any problem in joining.

    – I have met them. I am not as familiar with the newer organization, but Psi Upsilon was a solid presence during my tenure as a student. My interactions with the men in that fraternity were not positive; I found their group dynamics to be predatory.

    All of that being said, I am genuinely glad for your son that he has found an organization that has helped him enjoy his college experience. I don’t begrudge him the opportunity to experience what life has to offer both in- and outside of Mary Washington.
    But until these organizations take every single person who wants to join, allowing them to join as full-fledged members, there will be a disconnect with the campus dynamic.

  13. Fraternity Member

    Greek life ISN’T open to any student that is interested, since every person who wants to join has to be approved by existing members of the organization.

  14. UMW Parent

    I wasn’t aware that any student can come to UMW as a freshman without meeting certain criteria….Should anyone be able to attend UMW regardless of his GPA or SAT/ACT scores? Don’t you have to apply and be accepted?
    Life is about choices and not everyone has to be accepted in every club, sport or organization…That’s what makes the world go around.
    oh! and I find it offensive to make generalizations concerning Fraternities. Calling all brothers predatory or rapist is like saying all jocks are stupid…For UMW To deny Greek life is discriminatory!

  15. College Grad

    Wow. No one seems to respect or appreciate DIVERSE opinion. I understand why boys enjoy sharing a social and community minded life on or off campus. It is their choice. It is, by definition, a brotherhood. Let them have that choice. If you don’t approve, don’t take it personally. Live and let live. But allow those boys to enrich their college lives of only 4 years,without this senseless bickering among those who disapprove. They will respect your opinion, (unless it is an empty argument of generalizing about members’ characters) if you respect theirs’. This whole thing is like thrusting your ideology down someone else’s throat – “You aren’t in the right unless you think like me”. This thing cannot be resolved unless we respect each other. {By the way, I take offense at the reference that all fraternities are “rapists” and “predatory” by nature: every male in my family has been a member of a fraternity during their college lives. Some are/were professors, a judge, engineers, and teachers: all community-minded,caring,searching for betterment of other human beings, and none were sociopaths and rapists EVER. And while I never had time or inclination to join a sorority during my time at college, I was welcomed by members of fraternities and sororities alike, befriended during those 4 years, to help with food and blood drives, fund-raisers, and yes, at parties where I met friends I hold dear to this day…male and female. Fraternities do have great parties (thank goodness– to break the monotony of regular classes and offer a well-deserved break); but they also contribute to the community, and are civic-minded. By the way, you won’t find female members attending organizational meetings at mens’ clubs outside college campuses. They do exist, and our garden clubs in my city don’t accept males, either. Thank goodness. Why people are so mean and disrespectul of others’ opinions and ideals, I just don’t understand. Why do democrats and republicans HATE each other so? Because NO ONE LISTENS to the other view anymore – we’re so busy yelling over each other’s opinion. Please stop generalizing about people, folks. There are nice people out here with whom you’ll never benefit from knowing because you start out by slamming the proverbial door in their faces, simply because you don’t want anyone to disagree with you. Sadly, many of the closed-minded comments sound a little communistic to me. Open your minds and hearts to others’ feelings and ideas. The world will be better off for it, and you might learn something magnificent and profound. Nobody ever learns anything by talking over others.

  16. Kathleen

    Personally ( being a current student here) I believe Greek life should not come to UMW. From my experiences it has divided other campuses with what letters you are wearing, starting petty rivalries and other issues (an illegal one HAZING). If a student wants to go to a campus with Greek life then apply to a campus that has Greek life like UVA, CNU, VT, VCU, JMU, GMU, Longwood and Radford all have difference levels of academic excellence in Virginia. As you can see there are a variety of other schools in Virginia that a student can apply to that has Greek life. Let’s be one who doesn’t conform to the norm, and be unique. When did Greek life become a reason to apply to a school? Of that’s right, pop culture.
    It’s understandable that people want to belong in a group, but by not having Greek life on this campus it leaves opportunities open to meet a variety of people inside and outside of your social group. A Greek organization is prideful in itself and its members, wonderful, however young students lose sight what they are actually in college for, to maintain a degree and get out. When has college become about the social or “COLLEGE” experience? Studying at a university of course you are going to have fun and meet great people, but when has “having fun” become the main drive for a college student instead of pursuing better life opportunities through education.
    I also believe it will lower the academic standard here at UMW. We are proud of our academic excellence and strive to maintain it with nice facilities, outstanding professors, and vast resources. The type who come to a school for a Greek system do not USUALLY strive for academic excellence nor look at a school for what it has to offer academically.
    In theory Greek life is awesome, promoting the well being of young students socially and academically; however, its practice has become more about drinking, gossip, and doing the bare minimum to get by. From what I have seen at a variety of other campuses around Virginia Greek life is more of a negative than a positive. It is actually nice to go to a school without it, but visit the ones that do. Knowing many Greek life members few desire to go to a school for their academics. On the outside Greek life looks like it would benefit a school from the core concepts each organizations founders set in place, but I have yet to see any maintain such high moral standards. I’m sure there are exceptions to the rule, but is this campus willing to risk its academic excellence for Greek life that has a less credible reputation?

  17. Potential Transfer

    I am currently a student at a university in Virginia and I have recently applied to UMW because the Greek life at my current university not only divides our campus but it gives them a false sense of entitlement. Greeks act like they do so much for our community but the biggest thing they’ve done since I began attending school here is get us in the news for hazing and drug offenses. I want to go to a school with a good reputation and no matter how good my department is at my school, the university will always be known as a trendy Greek school. The appeal of UMW is that I will be known as part of a prestigious academic school, you’re lying to yourself if you don’t think Greek life won’t affect that. If UMW decides that Greek life is something they want I for one will not transfer there.

  18. Concerned student

    I know people have already said it, but don’t you dare try to to compare your son with people of the LGBT community. He will never go through a 1/100th of discrimination that LGBT students and non-students experience on a daily basis.

  19. Concerned student

    Listen, Parent, since you are encouraging me to find out more about the Greeks on campus let me tell you what I already know:
    Each year I have been here, the fraternities have gone door to door in freshman dorms recruiting young women to come to their parties. Disgusting. Men are usually required to bring female dates (compulsive heterosexuality – makes LGBT members feel uncomfortable). I know of at least one frat member who is abusive toward his girlfriend on a regular basis, yet the frat talks about how “morally upstanding” they are when recruiting. I have friends who have experienced sexual assaults at frat parties. Just because your son hides the dirty details from you doesn’t mean it’s all flowers.

  20. Kathleen

    UMW is a great school with a variety of programs to fit most any student who takes their studies seriously. I am very proud of our academic standing and enjoy attending a school that was ranked so highly with its professors and opportunities. It’s great to hear that you would want to transfer here, and good luck on being accepted!
    It is sad that Greek life has such a negative reputation, and while doing some reading about a few of its nationally recognized organizations it really sounds great! However, what I have been reading is not the practice I have seen firsthand in more cases than not. UMW already serves the community, with its internship and community service learning requirements in some majors. Not to mention all the work other organization put in. Why does UMW need Greek life to do what we are already doing?
    Over all we are already a diverse campus, there is something here for pretty much everyone, and a vast array of opportunities if you are willing to take the time and go for it (no football program sadly but we are a SMALL liberal arts school). What we lack that other major schools have we make up for being a community willing to look outside of the box. In my opinion being in Greek life is very stereotypical who hasn’t done it?
    UMW students already do everything a Greek life system has to offer, already have the internal networking connection, social opportunities, moral values the campus maintains with its honor code, and outstanding community service. Why do we need to wear letters on our chest, or divide our campus into groups to do what we have been doing for years as 1 UMW community?

  21. Concerned student

    I don’t know who you are or if you really are a fraternity member, but thanks for having some sense in understanding the side of those who do not want Greek on our campus. I really appreciate it.

  22. Potential Transfer

    So wait, because they are required to have dates thats offensive? I don’t advocate for greek life as you can see in my post down towards the bottom. However your post comes off as saying that they shouldn’t flaunt their heterosexuality? that’s a double standard that is crazy, you are fortunate to go to a school that by all sounds is much more accepting of a LGBT life choice, that being said you have no right to say that heterosexuals should hide that they have dating rules to parties.

  23. Potential Transfer

    Exactly, Kathleen I grew up in Fredericksburg and have family who are alumni and a lot of what you said is exactly why I consider UMW as the primary school I want to transfer to. Greek life absolutely divides campuses and its simply intolerable as a student who wants nothing to with it. Greek life is a crutch that a lot of schools use to interest people to come to their school but UMW doesn’t need that at all it is great on its own.

  24. Kathleen

    I did want to know more! I understand that no decision has been made as of yet, but I would like to know the thoughts of the administration at UMW. Along with how this “everyone has to be accepted into the club or organization” rule that UMW really stands behind will affect the rush and pledge process (I do not think it is out dated, just very open for students to have new opportunities). I did take the survey, and it was poorly done. After I took the survey I was left confused. The statistics could be easily misinterpreted for one side or the other. I am looking forward to retaking the new survey in the fall and further expressing my opinion on the matter.

  25. Kathleen

    Don’t let the potential issues that UMW will face with this concept of Greek life deter you from a great small public University. No decision has been made yet, and it is still up for debate. If you want to get involved as a student here it is easy as long as you have the time in you class schedule.
    I’m sorry you have had such a negative experience with Greek life at you university. In theory as I have stated earlier, they are a wonderful benefit to students. However, as you have experienced the practice isn’t always as easy as the theory. I’m sure there are MANY Virginia schools that have wonderful Greek life system, and I hope they are able to outshine the negative reputation that they have so easily become known for. With that said, I still want us to be unique and not have them on our campus to divide the UMW community.

  26. Potential Transfer

    It’s really encouraging to hear. The only draw back that I have been a little concerned about being involved if I transfer I will become a commuter student. Currently I play a club sport and am in the public history club so I like to be involved in many different ways. Ever since high school I’ve always been really involved but the options are few and far between because greek life is 75% of groups on my campus. Not all of them are bad but I would say that overall they are pretty negative.

  27. Concerned student

    If you are seriously considering transferring, let the administration know that that is a reason. Their opinions in this matter are just as important as student opinions. Also, if you decide to come – welcome! UMW is awesome in so, so, so many ways. Get involved in everything you like right off the bat and you’ll fall into a group of friends seamlessly.

  28. Concerned student

    I know many commuter students at UMW and from what I can tell they are happy here. If you’re able to be on campus at night during clubs you should be fine, and not being on campus probably sounds like a blessing for people without cars.

  29. Kathleen

    Well good luck in the transferring process! I also transferred here from another school and the people on staff at UMW make it an easy process, and really keep your best interests in mind. Commuting is not that bad in my experience, just arrive with enough time to find parking. That’s interesting that a university would let Greek life run so wild at your university with the problems you have already stated. With problems like that you would think they would try and get a hold of the young men and women associating themselves with those organizations and quickly put a stop to it. I’m sure UMW will be a positive refreshing change of pace.

  30. Potential Transfer

    Well thanks to both of you for the kind words, Greek life is totally run a muck in our tiny college town and I personally believe that the school doesn’t want to take a more strict stance because it is a huge draw for enrollment. Kathleen it sounds like you are commuter as well if you are local maybe we could meet up for lunch and you could show me around campus, oddly enough almost no one from my high school is currently a student at UMW, also thanks for the tip on parking having spent a lot of time in downtown Fredericksburg I was curious about how it works as their isn’t a ton of room for it.

  31. Kathleen

    Thank you for the invitation, but UMW does have many wonderful destination days and Discovery days (I went through them myself) and the guides are always full of information about the school. Take advantage of the people you meet and ask the questions that matter most to you. Parking on the other hand is a little more intense, so it is my recommendation to look up the schools policies on where you would be allowed to park and what decal is needed for what area.
    It’s sad a university is not able to control their student body. I hope in the future they are able to get a handle on the conduct of their students who involve themselves in Greek life; after all most of the activities in animal house are illegal. I hope the student body here at UMW stands up and takes notice of the pro’s and con’s of Greek life, and even does a little research.
    Since your from the area I’m sure you will have an easy time getting into the swing of things here at UMW. I’m sure your excited to become an EAGLE!!!

  32. Potential Transfer

    Yeah I don’t think the school has much of a want to stop greek life they just accept the casualties as they come, oh well, thats why they get new members every semester. Well thanks for the information. Hopefully I’ll see you around campus!

  33. Dave Durden

    Just because not everyone can be accepted into every group or association does not mean that we should not strive for that every day. Fraternities/Sororities are exclusive groups that create a class system among the student body. As far as your comment that you feel offended about the generalizations concerning fraternities, I have seen no-one make a statement that all brothers are predatory or rapists. I suggest you educate yourself on the vast amount of well-documented studies on the culture of Greek life.

  34. Kathleen

    “It’s very unfortunate UMW chooses to preach it’s diversity while discriminating against some of it”s students who wish nothing more than to bond with same sex friends and to participate in their college life and be recognised and supported by the college and student body for all of the good work they do.
    UMW get out from behind your shrouded vail and truly become the diverse university you claim to be…”

    I take great Offense to this statement on so many different levels. UMW is a highly diverse campus that offers better opportunities than being involved in Greek life alone and is much more open mined. Majors at UMW are required to do an internship or community service, the small school offers many networking opportunities, all the independantly active community supporting students, many community service groups on campus do awesome works in the community (your statement absolutely belittles them and the wonderful work they do), and the club participation is open to everyone (no matter who like’s you or does not like you, you are able to participate and not be told no we don’t want you). Unlike Greek life where you have to rush, be accepted, be a potential member, and go through the pledge process, then pay to maintain that status or be an inactive member. Outside of wearing letters on students chests UMW offers everything to its students that Greek life does but in a more positive way than most Greek life affiliates.

  35. Kathleen

    “It’s very unfortunate UMW chooses to preach it’s diversity while discriminating against some of it”s students who wish nothing more than to bond with same sex friends and to participate in their college life and be recognised and supported by the college and student body for all of the good work they do.
    UMW get out from behind your shrouded vail and truly become the diverse university you claim to be…”

    I take great Offense to this statement on so many different levels. UMW is a highly diverse campus that offers better opportunities than being involved in Greek life alone and is much more open mined. Majors at UMW are required to do an internship or community service, the small school offers many networking opportunities, all the independantly active community supporting students, many community service groups on campus do awesome works in the community (your statement absolutely belittles them and the wonderful work they do), and the club participation is open to everyone (no matter who like’s you or does not like you, you are able to participate and not be told no we don’t want you). Unlike Greek life where you have to rush, be accepted, be a potential member, and go through the pledge process, then pay to maintain that status or be an inactive member. Outside of wearing letters on students chests UMW offers everything to its students that Greek life does but in a more positive way than most Greek life affiliates.

  36. Realist

    Greek life is a load of bullshit. Ya’ll are stupid. Ya’ll are so, so stupid.

  37. Concerned student

    You’re missing the point. The current Greek students say that they “don’t care about their pledges’ sexuality” and that they “don’t ask” all the while flaunting their heterosexuality. This makes it clear that they think their sexuality is invisible and that sexuality is not part of what makes you who you are. I highly doubt the members of the fraternities and sororities do not know the sexualities of their fellow brothers and sisters. This is because their heterosexuality is compulsive. They feel comfortable bringing opposite gender dates to parties and talking about their significant others and their sexual partners. An LGBT student may not feel comfortable in that environment. You cannot make male members bring female dates without it making LGBT students uncomfortable, and I imagine for the men in the frats who cannot get a date or those attending the party who cannot get a date it is uncomfortable. They should be able to go alone instead of making it a clearly heterosexual space. It’s not about hiding their “normal” sexuality, but about embracing and being open to discussion of other sexuality.

  38. No Dog in the Fight

    Concerned student, I wish your comments had a “Like” button. 🙂

  39. 2010 alum

    I’m not entirely clear what you’re being concerned about, as your posting name shows. I doubt that you know anything about this parent’s son, and what kind, if any, discrimination that he has experienced in his own life. Your blanket assumption that he, as a member of a fraternity has not and will not experience the kind of discrimination LGBT community members experiences is at the very least ignorant, if not offensive.

    Just from my own point of view, and my own time at UMW, which I loved as a student, have fond memories as an alumnus and make frequent visits to chat with professors and present at UMW career fairs, there is plenty of discrimination lying around. I’ve heard African American classmates of mine put down not by fraternity members but by, of all people, the Ecology Club (this is not an attack on the Ecology Club or its members, I’m just stating a fact). I’ve heard a Latino student complain about a grade because his professor was “being such a Jew.” During my time at UMW I’ve heard racist comments such as “it’s okay, he’s not one of those black guys who’s a thug–he’s not really even black, since he’s at college!” or seen Facebook photos where a group of WASPy students pull at the corners of their eyes in a mockery of Asians.

    There is discrimination everywhere, on this campus and outside of it, but truth be told the amount of overt racism and discrimination are at a very low level here at UMW, and for you, as a concerned student, to express such outrage that someone else has not experienced 1/100th of someone else’s discrimination must not have been discriminated against themselves. Having been discriminated against before in the past and I’m sure in the future, I can say that it’s not an experience I wish on anyone. The amount of discrimination one faces in life is not some sort of perverse badge of honor, it’s a burden, and although at times those who have experienced wish others to understand the burden, it is not something we wish on anyone.

    Again, from my own experience, and please correct me if I’m wrong, the kind of student at UMW who express the greatest level of outrage and anger at the discrimination and mistreatment of minority groups (be it racial, sexual orientation or otherwise) are WASP upper-middle class with some sort of strange guilt complex about not having experienced hardship.

  40. UMW Parent

    You sound like someone that has had a lot of pain and sorrow in your life and I am sorry if that is the case.
    Sexuality has absolutely nothing to do with Greek Life… there are gay men who are members of fraternities all over the world. I really don’t think it’s a big deal!
    I don’t understand why you are making this about sexual orientation?
    Some students would like Greek life brought back to campus, because they wish to participate. It’s not required to like Greek life or participate any any activity associated with Greek Life… It’s about freedom of choice and not having students civil liberties pushed aside because some students don’t like or approve of Greek Life.

  41. UMW Parent

    You are missing the point… I’m not comparing him or anyone who supports Greek Life except to make a general comparison about human rights and freedom of choice. The issues are very different but the basic concept of live and let live are there…who are you to judge anyone but yourself. Put yourself in the other camps shoes and you may find this is about freedom of choice.

  42. 2010 alum

    And you’ve missed the point that I’m supportive of your viewpoint.

  43. That awkward moment when you support someone and it’s read differently by the person you support.

  44. Concerned student

    If the “WASP upper-middle class” students are the ones who care the most, it’s because they have the privilege to realize they can stand up against discrimination. Any minority that stands up for themselves is usually negatively stereotyped, but privileged students can be allies to them in a positive and effective way. When many types of people come together to fight prejudice it’s harder to ignore. Are you suggesting we just let minorities fight their own battles by themselves, and those with privilege should just live their lives blindly? Sorry for caring.

    When an assumedly straight, white, upper-middle class male student (because this is the majority of the Greek-related students) whines about being discriminated against because the school doesn’t want Greek Life, I roll my eyes. The majority cannot be discriminated against. You’re fooling yourself if you think they can be.

  45. Concerned student

    Thanks, No Dog in the Fight!

  46. Cassandra

    One of the reasons that I chose to be a student at Mary Washington was the lack of Greek life, a rarity at college and university campuses today. If becoming a member of a sorority or fraternity is important to someone, there are many other institutes of higher learning that offer such opportunities.

  47. Future Student

    I’ll be coming to the school next year, and I’m upset that they are considering changing their policy on greek life. One of the reasons I liked this school so much is that I wouldn’t have to deal with the greek acceptance/social circles issues. I really really hope that they decide against having greek life because I’ve only ever heard bad things about it. The only people who seem to like it are those who were/are in it or who have children in it. For them acceptance is easy, everyone is nice, they feel like part of a group. They forget that to get that group they had to deny others and be exclusive. UMW should keep it’s policies the same as before- no greek life. If you really need greek life, you should transfer to a big school.

  48. 2010 alum

    Yes, I understand the proclivity to roll your eyes when a presumed straight, white, upper-middle class male student whines about anything. But whining on behalf of a party you perceive to be discriminated against is still whining, and the straight, white, upper-middle class student penchant for getting offended on behalf of minorities because they “have the privilege to stand up against discrimination,” especially at UMW, smacks of antiquated notions of the white man’s burden and implies, offensively, that the quest for equality and freedom from discrimination can only be achieved through the collaboration of white, upper-middle class “allies.”

    The majority is a fluid concept. Take your privileged upper-middle class beliefs about allying with minorities to the Deep South and let me know how it feels to be part of the majority, or how accepting of your enlightened attitude about helping minorities fight prejudices goes over in a New Black Panther’s function. Majority is a fluid concept–around 2050 what are considered minority races will comprise more than 50% of the US population. By your logic, since minorities will then be the majority, discrimination will be a thing of the past, to be relegated to history books.

    I don’t speak for minorities. But as a member of more than just one minority demographic, at least in the US, I can say that although it’s nice that you care, and although it’s nice that you understand that you come from privilege, and as nice as it is to have allies in any battle, ultimately the fight against prejudices and discrimination is being fought not by you, but by us. Your attitude reminds me of the Kennedy family, that longtime champion of minorities, working class Americans and basically anyone who wasn’t upper-middle class white hetero males. It’s a longstanding tradition for the Kennedy children to go work a day in the soup kitchen closest to their Cape Cod compound, so that they could see poverty firsthand, so that they could see and be seen by the political cause that they would inherit. After a full day serving the poor and downtrodden, and with a renewed sense of purpose, they would retire to their waterfront compound. No Civil Rights leader or activist ever spurned the Kennedys as allies, but you’re fooling yourself if you actually think that they were ever accepted as anything more than that–powerful and well-connected allies. Alliances are oftentimes forged out of convenience or necessity, but the kind of institutional, entrenched privilege that allies you with minorities is oftentimes looked upon with distrust and distate, and we shall see how things change, if they do at all, in 2050 when minorities can claim majority status.

  49. Concerned Student 2

    There are nationally recognized greek chapters for those of LGBT orientation. It seems by the amount of crap that is being slung and the amount of trash that is being talked that even if UMW had official greek life, the people who are staunch opponents of the idea wouldn’t want anything to do with it, even if fraternities/sororities were accepting of varying sexualities. And thats fine. This is where I am lost on the argument. Just because a school has greek life in no way shape or form does that require a single person to be affiliated with it. Furthermore, one of the other clear arguments here is that it would cause a social hierarchy in the student body. I find this argument invalid for many reasons. 1- a social hierarchy already exists, as it does at any college institution whether you like it or not. 2- one of the arguments by the opponents of greek life I saw is that Greek life would make it easier for “the cool kids” (i.e. the kids who are apparently at fault for having decent social skills) and “the weirdos” (this is how the girl who stated this argument worded it, not I) to be separated. If you pay any attention to people walking on campus, people you see out on the weekends, and basically if you are not completely in the dark about life at this school you would understand that this is already the case. Do you see athletes hanging out with hipsters? Or maybe computer geeks hanging out with some skater bros? The point I’m trying to make is that our student body already is very divided in terms of cliques and what various people have in common. I guarantee that if a preppy individual went out to try and be best friends with one of the cliques of hardcore liberal hipsters, they would receive the same treatment as if it was the other way around. For someone to say that having a Greek system would cause unprecedented speration and discrimination is completely absurd. In fact, in this day and age, being discriminatory towards minorities is completely illegal, and I (and I would venture to say about 99% of the peoome in support of Greek life) are completely against this. Considering there are greek chapters for those of minority sexual orientations, for proponents against greek life to say we should not go greek because this minorities will be discriminated against are equally discriminatory by saying that having a group that flaunts heterosexuality is wrong.

  50. UMW Parent

    Equal Rights for all…. you can’t deny a club just because you disapprove… it’s raciest, discriminatory and against ones civil liberties….

  51. UMW Parent

    I appreciate your coming to my defense, but this isn’t about the LGBT community or sexual orientation… I used that organization as a means of comparison thinking they would understand what it’s like to have their organization be denied recognition based on outrageous generalizations and fear of the unknown…. Maybe I’m wrong but I thought kids these days were open to every kind of organization regardless if it benefits them directly.
    All I’m hearing are kids who hate the Greek System and have no interest in joining so they want to discriminate by keeping them underground…. It’s also none of their business to suggest any student leave UMW and go to a different school just because they want Greek Life on Campus… How raciest and elitist can you be!!!

  52. UMW Parent

    Oh my god!! concerned student 2, you are one of the only normal sounding student who’s blog I have read thus far!! You completely get it! It’s human nature to seek others who share your values and ideals… the human race isn’t one size fits all. Real diversity will come to UMW when the far left Hipster liberals, the LGBT community, jocks and everyone else are pleasant and respectful of each other and live and let live…Keeping Greek life off of campus is not making UMW less Diverse and accepting of fellow students. Just the opposite!
    I had a discussion this weekend with a friend who is a CFO of a fortune 100 company and friends who have degrees from many fine schools all over the country… some of us participated in Greek life and some did not… They read some of the blogs posted and all were sickened by the venom and lack of acceptance of another student’s organization, just because they don’t approve or like Greek Life. Everyone of them said today’s students are entitled and freak out if someone disagrees with their ideals and beliefs! Just wait until they have to get by in real life ( Not college life) Where is the support for all organizations? They said they always thought UMW was a school that was very accepting and after reading this blog they were amazed how unaccepted the school appeared.
    I can only pray I sent my child to a school that has far more students who appear as mature and level headed as “concerned Student 2” than some of these other students who seem to have such chips on their shoulders… what a burden that must be…

  53. UMW Parent

    Cassandra, You are right… there are other schools that have Greek Life and others that don’t! Students that don’t want Greek Life at UMW can just as easily transfer to a school that has no Greek Life!! and you could probably find a school that just offers only what you are interested in and has only clubs and organizations that you approve!
    now doesn’t that sound silly? Is Greek life at UMW really going to cause you such personal turmoil and through the whole campus into a downward spiral from which there is no return? If any Greek affiliated organization breaks the rules and does something stupid their charter is usually revoked! and that particular chapter is shut down.
    Keep an open mind and participate in what interests you, but be accepting of others choices and you will be just fine at UMW with or without Greek Life!

  54. UMW Parent

    If you think UMW doesn’t have clicks and that it’s one big homogeneous bliss you will be seriously in shock when you get to school… That just doesn’t exist in the world… sorry, but it really doesn’t exist. But, what you should want in a university and until this debate, I thought UMW did have,was acceptance of all students and a live and let live attitude. My child attended a excellent high school which had opportunity for sports, the arts, it was very academically challenging and had a very diverse student body. What I noticed and loved about that school was how polite and accepting most kids seemed of their peers. I had never seen anything like it!
    UMW students need to be accepting of their classmates, no matter who they are, or what organizations they belong.
    UVA has had Greek life for a very long time and there is definitely a high Archie among the Greeks at that school. This doesn’t have to be the way it is at UMW…If UMW students are so diverse and accepting shouldn’t the UMW students who choose Greek Life still maintain that attitude?
    UVA is such a big school you can’t compare it to UMW in any way.

  55. Concerned Student 2

    Wow! Great point!

  56. Potential Transfer

    You sound incredibly ignorant. UMW has a ton of great programs and elite academics, if your son wants his fraternity to be on campus so much have him transfer. I’m transfering directly because of the negative effect greek life has on my campus. Frat guys who burn couches or break stuff on campus is a real life issue at my school I respect UMW a lot and my mom is an alumni but it will be spoiled by greek life because greek life attracts the wrong kind of students.

  57. Potential Transfer

    If you are really a mom of a student at this school I feel sorry for him because your trying to bully his classmates and not allow them to voice their opinions. If you really want to make a point do it with facts and not just saying people are wrong. You have forced me to say something because its disgraceful a mother could talk that way. Maybe you should listen and not speak. You are removed from college life and Greek Life is not the same as when you were in school.

    Also as a Fredericksburg resident and being over 21 I have drank with UMW students who are in your sons frat they are fun to have a beer with but I wouldn’t want them being the ones representing my school.

  58. Fraternity Member

    I never said I was a member of a fraternity at UMW, but I do hope that my perspective as an insider will help to dismantle the specious arguments floated by supporters of Greek life.

  59. Future Student

    Right, I understand that there are cliques and groups everywhere- what I am saying is that you seem to think UMW’s ‘inclusion’ policy means they must include all clubs. That isn’t what they are saying… the school and the kids at it accept your son and his friends/brothers, but they should not support an organization which has exclusionary policies. You talk about diversity- they aren’t arguing against greek life because they have issues with the people in it or with certain types of people, they have an issue with a club which would ban members from joining, and in my honest opinion (as well as others on this post and in the school from what I have read) would degrade the community and friendly atmosphere of UMW. You keep talking about diversity and acceptance, but the group which you defend does not uphold those same morals. Also, I didn’t mention UVA once.

  60. There are arguments on both sides that are unfitting for this discussion. I can go into this topic more if asked, but I will be very prominent next year in this debate in real life, because screw the anonymity of the internet when it comes to forums and such. As of this moment, though, I’ll stick to this so I stay trendy.

  61. “You are removed from college life…” Doesn’t this argument go along when discussing alumni, as well? The very same alumni that are being brought into the argument for and against this topic (both from UMW and from other universities)?

  62. What about the clubs on campus that are all female? What about the dorms on campus that are all female? Sports teams? I believe that Title IX (the most powerful thing going for pro-greek organizations) is the only argument that is needed for the inclusion of fraternities and sororities into Mary Washington.

  63. So you assume that greek life attracts unsavory people? I won’t deny that, but does that mean the majority of colleges and universities have more unsavory people than schools without greek life? I wonder if UMW does not already have unsavory people? This is not me denouncing any members of this campus, as I will support all of them equally to their right of opinion, but how will introducing “official” greek life into UMW bring any more unsavory characters than any other school would have?

  64. UMW Female Student

    As a female student at the University of Mary Washington the issue of Greek Life on campus is a great concern to me. If students really want to participate in Greek Life they should have gone to a campus with Greek Life. One of the reasons I came to this school was because it was a smaller campus and because there was no Greek Life. I’m glad you’re son has had a positive experience, but I have heard my fair share of stories from close friends involving the frat. I am a young woman actually attending this school and if your son is having such a positive experience maybe he should be commenting on this instead of you. I came here for an excellent academic education and have made excellent friends in my classes and other clubs and activities that this school has to offer. I did not come here to party and while I respect that other people want to do that, they should have considered that before coming to a school that is not known for partying and should have gone to a school with Greek Life in the first place. Just of out of curiosity do you have a daughter, have you ever heard a parent condone Greek Life before? This decision affects ME as a student attending the University of Mary Washington and while I’m glad you have an opinion you are not affected by the decision since you do not go here.

  65. Is anyone aware about Title IX?

  66. There are a lot of blanket assumptions being thrown all over the place. What ever happened to the concept Tabula Rasa?

  67. UMW Parent

    whether or not I really am a UMW parent is irrelevant. I’m trying to get you thinking about fairness and equal opportunity for ALL, and not just the groups or clubs you prefer. Being enlightened, as college students like to think of themselves, is knowing sometimes we have to accept groups or organizations have a right to exist around us, evrn though we would prefer they didn’t. A truly diverse campus is accepting of all types of people and organizations, even ones you think may bring unwanted change to the school.
    Greek life isn’t going to fundamentally change your school. I doubt it will ever be a huge part of UMW, but for those interested, it will provide them a choice. Are all college kids so wrapped up in themselves that they can’t understand that this whole debate is about offering another option for students to participate. It’s about equal opportunity to exist on campus (even if unwelcome by many). Allowing all groups and organizations to co-exist on campus is the only way to be truly diverse and not just a slogan to falsely advertise the school to the outside community.

  68. UMW Female Student

    UMW has plenty of organizations and events that accept, encourage and welcome diversity. Students do have a choice, they are aware that this school does not have Greek Life and can apply to a college that does. And I’m sorry, but I disagree with you. Adding Greek Life will change the community at UMW. I’m not trying to stereotype but there is a positive correlation between Greek Life and partying, and students who want to drink and party will start flocking to this school and that WILL change the campus. And, why would you want to bring unwanted change to the school? That does not make sense and is why this blog is up to begin with to determine if the majority of people do want Greek LIfe at UMW, not to force it upon the school. There are more ways to be diverse and to encourage diversity than by encouraging drinking, partying, and hazing. For example, the Multicultural Fair, and the other one hundred and twenty clubs that the school offers. And if you aren’t actually a UMW parent then why are you pretending to be one and raving about the wonderful experiences your “son” is having.

  69. 2009 Grad

    If you were to ask me what the overarching culture at UMW has been since I originally attended, the answer would be “people who like to argue”.

    This thread of responses showcases that UMW shares what I believe is a healthy dialogue amongst its student body to improve and develop the UMW community at large.

    With that being said, I have two points:

    1 – I played a varsity sport for 4 years during my time at UMW (I won’t say which one to prevent a deep-seeded rage from falling upon the current players). I can promise you that while you may not think that greek life exists on campus, it has existed for years, just without greek letters. UMW is already no different from any other school. There are circles of people and friends that associate with likeminded people – generally circulating around an athletic team, club, or dorm floor. Whatever the cause may be, the point is that people flock to each other and create their own social system naturally. Adding greek life to the mix would not be discriminatory, it simply adds options for where people can form their circles.
    One of my favorite things about UMW was that as an athlete, I actually spent a fair amount of time socializing with non-athletes. I spent time regularly with PsiU, Invoice (remember them?), English Majors, Bio Majors, etc. Discriminatory is a state of mind.

    2 – I feel sorry for every current student on this thread that has argued against greek life because it inherently keeps people out. If you like the current UMW culture and don’t want greek life to alter it, fine. But exclusivity is a horrible argument. I understand the UMW policy about allowing everybody to join a club, but frankly that policy sucks. It is stupid.
    If the purpose of our University is to prepare us for “the real world”, what is it teaching us by instilling a policy of non-exclusivity?
    News Flash: “The real world” is nothing but exclusive. Try showing up to your first job interview expecting that you are allowed into the company without having to prove yourself. Then try and underperform at work because they can’t kick you out. Tell me how it works out for you.
    I personally think that UMW already underserves its students in direct preparation for graduation (i.e. internships, networking events, career services, etc.). Please do not exacerbate the issue by allowing a foolish and childish policy of “everybody is great!” to continue. Everybody is not great (at everything). Some are good at math, some are good at kicking a ball. How you will succeed in life is dependent on your strengths and how you use them. You cannot just go be a doctor, lawyer, writer, and NFL star all at once. They will not let you in. You must compete for them.

    It’s the unfortunate truth, my fellow Eagles.

  70. UMW Parent

    I couldn’t agree more!!

  71. UMW Parent

    yes… Title IX prohibits discrimination on the basis of sex in education programs or activities operated by recipients of Federal Financial assistance and prohibits sex based discrimination.
    I feel, and I think the Va State ALCU will agree, that this is a reverse biased with regards to prohibiting Greek life on campus and using the co-ed policy as a basis for banning Greek Life. There are Co-ed Greek chapters all over the county, as well as many co-ed and LGBT Grees. Look it up!
    My advice to students who wish to allow Greek Life, is to organise try and work the administration, but if that doesn’t work and they keep pushing the issue off the table – go speak with a good lawyer who specializes in discrimination suites. You potentially have a huge one!! You may want to start with the VA State ACLU in Richmond, VA. I don’t think UMW wants a legal fight on their hand, especially one in which I feel they would loose. How do you think UVA and UMW became co-ed. in the first place? Do your homework!!

  72. UMW Parent

    My child and any student all ready enrolled at UMW has every right to continue to be there as long as they have good academic standing, which I can assure you my child does!! You should consider looking else where if you hate Greek life, because it may come to UMW. I would hate for you to have to transfer later… it can be such a royal pain!

  73. Former Student

    I keep reading how Greek Life has ruined most colleges according to many students writing on this blog? I wasn’t aware the College of William and Mary, UVA, Va Tech, JMU, Washington and Lee and countless others attract such unsavory characters! I hope for your sake that the faculty and administration don’t support that theory.
    William and Mary is planning to build very upscale new Fraternity and Sorority houses on campus near William and Mary Hall. If W&M thought it’s students involved in Greek Life were immoral, predatory rapist, as I have read on this Bullet blog, why would the Greek organizations be getting brand new digs? The argument that Greek life attracts students of poor character is ridiculous! Some of the most influential and famous people in history and modern times were/are members of fraternities and sororities. I haven’t heard one good argument against allowing Greek life on campus that would hold up in court.

  74. It also has a part after that – look that up before mentioning ACLU.

  75. Former Student

    Are you refering to this section of Title IX?

    ‘This section shall not apply to memebership paractices… of a social fraternity or social Sorority which is exempt from taxation under section 501(A) of Title 26. The active membership of which consist primarily of Students in attendance at a institution of higher education.

  76. Bingo.

  77. Nicky

    My opinion on Greek life is that they are elitist and promote social class. They are exclusionary and promote exclusion towards Disabled students, LGBT students, Non traditional students and even veteran students. Greeks serve no purpose on college campuses and College should outright ban them from college on the basis that they discriminate against people. Greeks also promote sexism and sexist attitudes towards people and women.

  78. Wow

    Wow, sorry you’re so misinformed. That must suck.

  79. D. Clark

    There was no Greek Life before Mary Washington went COED.

  80. That’s quite one-sided, and I don’t think such assumptions are appreciated by either side of the argument.

  81. bob alum

    that is not a good reason to choose a school – the “lack of greek life”. I am not a huge fan of greek life (I had friends at UVA and Penn St in it and visited often) but the gay and lesbian community are turning into bullies. they are not bothering you, they are not threatening you – leave them alone. Seriously, grow up – you are now bothered by the potential of being bullied? Grow up – the workplace will eat you alive.

  82. bob alum

    UMW is in total violation of Title IX – every male at UMW is discriminated against. Go to the website and look at the number of girls sports vs guys sports. Total discrimination for years and years. No question about it – just not politically correct to support this.

  83. Lolololol

    I hope that everyone who is against Greek Life for various stupid, sorry assed, “politically correct” reasons understands that they’re going to lose thanks to title IX. Stop Brocism.

  84. UMW Senior

    Greek life or no Greek life, was the question. 23.9 percent of the student population completed the survery, with 47.01 percent voted AGAINST Greek life and 32.28 percent voted FOR Greek life. The student body has shown what they want, now honor their wishes. For the 32.28 percent that want a Greek life, take it off campus.

    For those that want to throw the discrimination card, go find somewhere else to throw it.

  85. Well, that’s interesting. The survey that both sides don’t agree with how it was done? Good points. And that’s hardly majority, so don’t use the term “student body” without including that is was only a percentage. Let me reword it for you: “One tenth of the student body has shown what they want, now honor their wishes.” To respond back to that phrase: No.
    .
    .
    .
    Of 4000 students (the number is off, but a fair estimate):
    -Roughly 960 students took the survey.
    -Approximately 470 students voted against Greek Life.
    -Approximately 310 students voted for Greek Life.
    .
    .
    .
    Now match those numbers back up to the rough UMW population of 4000 students. I know it’s more than that, but 4000 is a nice number. The results don’t exactly match up to the proper amounts needed to make a decision based solely on a survey, now don’t you think? The difference of opinion comes out to about 160 students (+/- 10ish), and that’s only based on a survey of less that a fourth of the then-current students. I don’t think it’s a fair assumption to say that the student body doesn’t want Greek Life.

  86. UMW Senior

    Pants off, you have made a great observation. 4000 students of which @960 took the survey. Maybe next time the students that didn’t participate will have their voices heard and vote.

    Was the first survey a fair representation? I have to ask how many students read the email about the survey and blew it off? How many don’t care one way or the other? How many students don’t read their email at all?

    I recommend those that want or don’t want Greek life get out and spread the word to vote. And while they are at it, let all those 18 and older know that there is another vote in November that they “need” to participate in.

  87. See now, that’s a much more agreeable post that I can stand near. However, maybe the people who didn’t answer the survey, perhaps a good majority of them don’t care either way. If that’s the case, then 3320 (minus probably 100-350) students don’t care whether or not Greek Life comes onto campus.

    This is where we get the main flaws of on-campus surveys. Regardless of how much of a percentage of people vote, there will always be a legitimate reason(s) to contest them. It has the chance to turn into a popularity contest of ideas, and I don’t think that something as pertinent to the future history of UMW needs to be degraded into something like that.

  88. Concerned

    OMG… I have read every response concerning Greek Life on Campus and I must admit I’m in shock! I can only hope that the vast majority of students do not read this student news paper. This paper is obviously written by a bunch of far left elitist.
    I happen to agree that including Greek Life will not ruin UMW. For all of you who think it’s about what you want on campus and screw the others that don’t agree with your ideals … grow up! most of your arguments are unfounded and very discriminatory!
    I pray that Greek Life comes to UMW to infuse some normal students into the mix. My god if this is what the student body is really like at UMW may god help you all!

  89. Real World

    Wow, you could not have said it better. I am amazed at how whiny some of these groups are – I too am a recent alum and these students are already protected on campus. If a group of students wants to meet and have some meetings exclusive, and then do a lot of charity work with a few secret handshakes mixed in,,, so be it. Does anyone realize they will meet frat members in the workplace. They are called “CEOs” and “VPs”, and “directors”. Are you going to run to campus admin and whine then when you have no idea how to work with others? The real world is going to whip up on these whiners that say “let me in” – why not let people form a group? Would PRISM welcome a group of jocks that showed up and did not bow to their will immediately? The answer is no they would not. There are bullies on campus who get their way by whining a whole lot. This will not work in the real world. Just like UMW polices the heck out of every social setting the frat will be regulated into medicrity, let them have their fun. By the way, PRISM, you whine and whine. go do some community service/charity work not focused on sexual preference or needs. Do something to help others unlike yourselves. Man, it felt good to say that.

  90. E

    The issue isn’t exclusivity it’s the opposite. It’s the fact that at a small school like UMW, Greek Life will attract prospective students looking for the stereotypical binge drinking culture and students uninterested/unwilling to deal with these students/this culture will leave the college.

    UMW will never host crazy (or probably interesting) parties with or without Greek Life. The introduction of non-academic/anti-academic organizations whose members drink 25% more bodes poorly for a college serious about academics. Maybe UMW will be the only college with Greek Life that doesn’t fall into this counter-productive trap, but I’d rather take my chances on a solid education, embarrassingly small natty light glow sticks kesha Frat parties aside.

  91. Stereotyping much?

  92. Late to the party

    I know I’m late, but I’ve seen countless comments where you encourage other students who do not like Greek Life to transfer, yet you seem appalled when people tell you that if someone wants Greek Life that badly, they should transfer.

    The amount of ignorance you have is shocking, and I hope your son didn’t get any of it from you.

  93. And this is when the debate comes back to a roaring stumble. Hooray for school in less than a month!